As recently as 1900, one in four girls in Britain were named Mary . . .
Being Catholic, there have been umpteen Mary Elizabeths and John Josephs in the family. English Catholics never went for 'Jesus' though. And as John Cooper Clarke said, 'What's wrong with West Side Story is that that bloke Tony goes round a Puerto Rican area of New York singing "Maria" at the top of his voice and only one face comes to the window!'
Old Testament names seem to be divided into those that are conventional or not based again I would say largely on familiarity. Names such as Adam, Daniel, David, Rachel, Joseph or my name Samuel don't strike me as particular outre names, they have been fairly common throughout the centuries. Something like Hezekiah however would seem odd. There are those like Noah which seem to be on the borderline between the two.
It is a strange peculiarity of the Spanish speaking world that it is, as far as I can tell the only language where calling your child Jesus is considered perfectly normal.
Now I think about it though, the decline in the sectarian nature of naming is an important trend looking at it from a longer perspective. 100 years ago certain names would have marked you out a belonging to a particular Christian denomination quite clearly. The Puritan names you mentioned and the more unusual Old Testament names were associated with non-conformist denominations. The more common Old Testament names and royal names became a somewhat clear signifier of being an Anglican or at least a member of associated Episcopalian churchs such as the Church of Ireland. And of course saints names were a strong identifier of Catholics. The New Testament names straddled both Catholics and Anglicans. It is noteable that a name like Benjamin was no bar to becoming Prime Minister in the 19th century, but a name such as Dominic or Xavier certainly would have been. This seems to have faded out in the British Isles after the Second World War, at least in Great Britain, if not in Ireland.
And for that reason I would say that Enoch Powell's name did mean he sounded the part of a Northern Irish Unionist perfectly back in the 70s when he jumped ship from the Tories, perhaps an example of nominative determinism. If he had been called Michael Powell, or Francis Powell it would have been all a lot less credible.
Jesus was very uncommon in English, but the Anglicised version of the popular Spanish name Jose Maria used to be fairly common in Britain and Ireland. One of the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising was Joseph Mary Plunkett.
Speaking as a New Zealander, I can assure you there are other similar names that have been rejected, a couple I happen to recall for your amusement include "Midnight Chardonnay" and "Bus Shelter number9".
There is a Catholic equivalence to this though in some countries. In Spain a Asunción, Concepción, Trinidad, Fatima and Lourdes are not uncommon names among women of a certain age.
Or calling the future actor John Wayne “Marion”. PS is - or was - Wayne a blue collar British favourite because of John Wayne, or is it a folk memory of Sweyn Forkbeard, first Scandi king of England?
I think you're being rather generous to suggest the various bizarre spellings are a deliberate choice rather than a simple result of an inability to spell.
When I lived in Germany, I found that women named 'Mandy' were often found in the tabloid newspaper Bild, under headlines like 'Because She Criticised His Tattoo: My Boyfriend Stabbed My Mum'.
Curiously, 'Sebastian', which sounds very posh to anglophone ears, is a common enough name among middle-class German millenials.
When I was at comprehensive school in the mid-1960s, most people were of the Janet and John type but there were old-fashioned anomalies like Alfred, Norman and Ronald (my best friend who still hates the name to this day - calls himself Ron. )There were two people in the school with German-type names: Carl ( I used to deliver The Daily Star to their house) and me Anton (after Anton Walbrook in the film Dangerous Moonlight). I have never met another Anton (not even in Germany) but do now see the name cropping up in British newspapers from time to time.
What a fantastic actor to be named after! I remember a conversation between Melvyn Bragg and Russell Harty (a British presenter and chat show host) - both had movie-mad mothers so Bragg was named after Melvyn Douglas and Harty was in full Frederic Russell Harty after Frederic Marsh.
I’m an American, but when my English colleague (who is rather posh) told me he was having a son, I begged him to give his son the most amusing English name in my opinion; St. John (pronounced Sin-jin)
I feel the given name St. John might be worthy of it’s own article
The bit that made me laugh out loud was that the disappointed New Zealand couple, who wanted to name their son 4Real, had to settle for the more prosaic 'Superman'. I'm curious as to why the NZ authorities thought that 'Superman' was totally acceptable while '4Real' wasn't. I would have found it hard to adjudicate the matter.
My mum was an infant teacher and prior to the start of every new autumn term she could predict which pupils were going to do well and which were going to be a problem, just from their names.
I never had children but if I had, I would have gone for names like John and Julie, simply because I wouldn't have wanted them to think that they were something special. A special name is like a special tattoo: an attempt by either the parents or the person themself to convince others they are special. What could be more of a turn-off than that?
I hope Ed isn’t self-censoring. Winston was VERY popular in Jamaica after the war. Jim Davidson and a lot of other comedians (you decide) had a character called Winston in their act. I’m self-censoring now. It was also the name of the main character in 1984 too, of course.
I'm pleased with the names we chose for our daughters who are now about 9 years old: Tara and Monica.
Both are very rare names in England now: Tara is 638th most popular and Monica 1383th. But despite that both are well-known, normal names and don't seem particularly old-fashioned IMHO, so that's a nice combination of rarity and normal-ness.
If we had had a boy it was going to be Arthur after my grandfather, and a name that at the time was very rare and I thought under-rated. Not rare any more you now see Arthurs everywhere! Just checked and it's actually gone from being ranked 234 in 1996 to ranked 6 in 2022 so I was ahead of trends there!
I feel rather sorry for the children who've 'benefited' from the fairly recent penchant for Celtic/Gaelic names among the wider community. They are often lovely-sounding names but the spellings and pronunciations really only make sense to the speakers of those languages and must sometimes cause complications in the wider the UK.
I took out a couple of paragraphs on Irish names because it didn’t really fit in - might do another post on it. They really are incomprehensible to English speakers which, I suppose, is part of the attraction
As recently as 1900, one in four girls in Britain were named Mary . . .
Being Catholic, there have been umpteen Mary Elizabeths and John Josephs in the family. English Catholics never went for 'Jesus' though. And as John Cooper Clarke said, 'What's wrong with West Side Story is that that bloke Tony goes round a Puerto Rican area of New York singing "Maria" at the top of his voice and only one face comes to the window!'
haha
I'm an atheist but even I think calling your son 'Jesus' is a bit blasphemous, just as calling your son 'God' would be.
Having said that, naming your child after Norse gods seems absolutely fine to me. Clearly it's monotheistic gods that are the problem.
Old Testament names seem to be divided into those that are conventional or not based again I would say largely on familiarity. Names such as Adam, Daniel, David, Rachel, Joseph or my name Samuel don't strike me as particular outre names, they have been fairly common throughout the centuries. Something like Hezekiah however would seem odd. There are those like Noah which seem to be on the borderline between the two.
It is a strange peculiarity of the Spanish speaking world that it is, as far as I can tell the only language where calling your child Jesus is considered perfectly normal.
Enoch will probably continue to struggle as well I imagine
Now I think about it though, the decline in the sectarian nature of naming is an important trend looking at it from a longer perspective. 100 years ago certain names would have marked you out a belonging to a particular Christian denomination quite clearly. The Puritan names you mentioned and the more unusual Old Testament names were associated with non-conformist denominations. The more common Old Testament names and royal names became a somewhat clear signifier of being an Anglican or at least a member of associated Episcopalian churchs such as the Church of Ireland. And of course saints names were a strong identifier of Catholics. The New Testament names straddled both Catholics and Anglicans. It is noteable that a name like Benjamin was no bar to becoming Prime Minister in the 19th century, but a name such as Dominic or Xavier certainly would have been. This seems to have faded out in the British Isles after the Second World War, at least in Great Britain, if not in Ireland.
And for that reason I would say that Enoch Powell's name did mean he sounded the part of a Northern Irish Unionist perfectly back in the 70s when he jumped ship from the Tories, perhaps an example of nominative determinism. If he had been called Michael Powell, or Francis Powell it would have been all a lot less credible.
It's the old joke, 'If Jesus was Palestinian, why's he got a Spanish name?'
Worth at least a 'Ha', I reckon.
Jesus was very uncommon in English, but the Anglicised version of the popular Spanish name Jose Maria used to be fairly common in Britain and Ireland. One of the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising was Joseph Mary Plunkett.
Speaking as a New Zealander, I can assure you there are other similar names that have been rejected, a couple I happen to recall for your amusement include "Midnight Chardonnay" and "Bus Shelter number9".
Hahaha
"Prudence" is another very Puritan-sounding name one doesn't hear much now.
There is a Catholic equivalence to this though in some countries. In Spain a Asunción, Concepción, Trinidad, Fatima and Lourdes are not uncommon names among women of a certain age.
Among my church friends are Asuncion de Maria, Lourdes, Fatima, Nazareth, Genesis, and half a dozen Guadalupes, of both sexes.
Cynthia, where on earth do you live?
Prudence Dailey is an icon in the Prayer Book movement, I'll have you know!
Can you see South Asian names really catching on among non-South Asians due to the growing and profound influence of the Indian diaspora?:
https://www.takimag.com/article/indian-summer/
They'll have to be anglicized a bit as subcontinental languages have a plethora of phonemes English does have
I probably could have gotten away with calling a son Hitler
https://news.sky.com/story/hitler-and-lennin-stand-for-election-in-peru-11507096
Would have taught him how to fight
Like Big Daddy being named Shirley
Or a boy named Sue?
Or calling the future actor John Wayne “Marion”. PS is - or was - Wayne a blue collar British favourite because of John Wayne, or is it a folk memory of Sweyn Forkbeard, first Scandi king of England?
I think you're being rather generous to suggest the various bizarre spellings are a deliberate choice rather than a simple result of an inability to spell.
When I lived in Germany, I found that women named 'Mandy' were often found in the tabloid newspaper Bild, under headlines like 'Because She Criticised His Tattoo: My Boyfriend Stabbed My Mum'.
Curiously, 'Sebastian', which sounds very posh to anglophone ears, is a common enough name among middle-class German millenials.
After reading some of the name choices in this piece, I fear the remainers were right: the British are not fit for self-government.
When I was at comprehensive school in the mid-1960s, most people were of the Janet and John type but there were old-fashioned anomalies like Alfred, Norman and Ronald (my best friend who still hates the name to this day - calls himself Ron. )There were two people in the school with German-type names: Carl ( I used to deliver The Daily Star to their house) and me Anton (after Anton Walbrook in the film Dangerous Moonlight). I have never met another Anton (not even in Germany) but do now see the name cropping up in British newspapers from time to time.
What a fantastic actor to be named after! I remember a conversation between Melvyn Bragg and Russell Harty (a British presenter and chat show host) - both had movie-mad mothers so Bragg was named after Melvyn Douglas and Harty was in full Frederic Russell Harty after Frederic Marsh.
I’m an American, but when my English colleague (who is rather posh) told me he was having a son, I begged him to give his son the most amusing English name in my opinion; St. John (pronounced Sin-jin)
I feel the given name St. John might be worthy of it’s own article
PS: he didn’t give the name to his son
The bit that made me laugh out loud was that the disappointed New Zealand couple, who wanted to name their son 4Real, had to settle for the more prosaic 'Superman'. I'm curious as to why the NZ authorities thought that 'Superman' was totally acceptable while '4Real' wasn't. I would have found it hard to adjudicate the matter.
My mum was an infant teacher and prior to the start of every new autumn term she could predict which pupils were going to do well and which were going to be a problem, just from their names.
I never had children but if I had, I would have gone for names like John and Julie, simply because I wouldn't have wanted them to think that they were something special. A special name is like a special tattoo: an attempt by either the parents or the person themself to convince others they are special. What could be more of a turn-off than that?
I hope Ed isn’t self-censoring. Winston was VERY popular in Jamaica after the war. Jim Davidson and a lot of other comedians (you decide) had a character called Winston in their act. I’m self-censoring now. It was also the name of the main character in 1984 too, of course.
I'm pleased with the names we chose for our daughters who are now about 9 years old: Tara and Monica.
Both are very rare names in England now: Tara is 638th most popular and Monica 1383th. But despite that both are well-known, normal names and don't seem particularly old-fashioned IMHO, so that's a nice combination of rarity and normal-ness.
If we had had a boy it was going to be Arthur after my grandfather, and a name that at the time was very rare and I thought under-rated. Not rare any more you now see Arthurs everywhere! Just checked and it's actually gone from being ranked 234 in 1996 to ranked 6 in 2022 so I was ahead of trends there!
I feel rather sorry for the children who've 'benefited' from the fairly recent penchant for Celtic/Gaelic names among the wider community. They are often lovely-sounding names but the spellings and pronunciations really only make sense to the speakers of those languages and must sometimes cause complications in the wider the UK.
I took out a couple of paragraphs on Irish names because it didn’t really fit in - might do another post on it. They really are incomprehensible to English speakers which, I suppose, is part of the attraction
"And he said, "Son, this world is rough
And if a man's gonna make it, he's gotta be tough
And I knew I wouldn't be there to help you along
So I give you that name and I said goodbye
I knew you'd have to get tough or die
And it's that name that helped to make you strong"
-- lyrics from "A Boy Named Sue" (performed by Johnny Cash, written by Shel Silverstein)