16 Comments
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Ed West's avatar

Sorry I haven't responded to any comments, but I was walking around Mycenae yesterday. https://x.com/edwest/status/1849082465786245600 highly recommended!

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Neil C's avatar

Jonathan Yeo has never had a fight with a waiter about whether his artichokes were cooked in oil or butter. Yet more decline.

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Brian Thomas's avatar

As far as I know, the Virgin Mary's death is not contrary to Catholic teaching. That she was assumed into Heaven is defined dogma, but whether or not she died first is, I believe, disputed.

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Tony Buck's avatar

The Assumption only graduated from RC popular piety to defined dogma in 1950.

The RC Catechism leaves it an open question whether Mary died, but quotes the Byzantine Liturgy referring to her Dormition ("falling asleep") which is Orthodox Catholic belief (together with her Assumption) and 15 August feast day.

I see on Google that Scottish Episcopalians revere Mary's Falling Asleep (death without suffering or spiritual disquiet) but don't define the Assumption as an article of faith.

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ChrisC's avatar

Revelations 12:1 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" is the supposed scriptural support for the Assumption.

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ChrisC's avatar

Speaking of Sicily, in the Palazzo Abetellis there is a wing of the museum, translated from Italian, "in the style of Caravaggio". One of the paintings there is "Christ and the Canaanite Woman" by Mattia Preti. I thought it was a Caravaggio until corrected by a friend. There is an actual Caravaggio in Sicily in a church in Syracusa, "The Burial of Santa Lucia", which locals told us was "the most famous painting in Sicily".

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jesse porter's avatar

Your observations and comments bring the kind of feelings that the artist's works evoke. A great post about a great artist!

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Tony Buck's avatar

Well, as Rome was like that during the Counter-Reformation, it's no surprise the Counter-Reformation failed in its intention of converting all Europe back to Catholicism.

Should have tried to convert the Romans first.

The fervent John Henry Newman admired the simple, unquestioning Catholic faith of the Romans of the 1840's, but was appalled by their cruelty to animals and other bad behaviour - surprised that faith and conduct could be so disconnected.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Malta is a sad place with a relentlessly desperate history (and natural history).

https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Death_in_Malta/xyasEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

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Aidan Barrett's avatar

After reading Cremieux's post on the Ottoman Origins of Modernity (https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/the-ottoman-origins-of-modernity), it makes me wonder if the Italian Peninsula and more broadly the Mediterranean part of Europe, may have continued to be the wealthiest and most sophisticated were it not for the Protestant Reformation and Counter-Reformation (which really caused a brain drain from the Catholic South). Also, without the Ottomans, Venice, Genoa, and possibly other Italian city states would have been pre-eminent in the Eastern Mediterranean.

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JonF311's avatar

I think the decline of Italy as the economic center of Europe is mostly due to the discovery of the New World and of a sea route to India and China, shifting trade to the Atlantic coast and bypassing the Mediterranean. And the Italian Wars between France and Spain, also wrecked the peninsula's prosperity.

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Aidan Barrett's avatar

Yes, it would always be the case that once the New World was discovered, geography would favour the polities directly adjacent to it

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Tony Buck's avatar

Italian and European Christianity have never recovered from the Italian Renaissance, a pagan movement that sometimes tried to be manly and Roman, but succeeded only in being effete and decadent.

It was accompanied throughout Italy (except in remote rural parts) by a positively 1960's spurning of all morality. As Machiavelli said, the political impotence of Italy sprang from the general debasement of human character there.

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Aidan Barrett's avatar

Malta's history as The Remnant of the Knights Hospitalier is a fascinating story:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheRemnant

It really gives a sense as to what the Levant might look like today if the Crusades were successful, a place where most speak a Latin-loan word heavy Semitic language with the Catholic Church deeply embedded.

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JonF311's avatar

A bit of a quibble, but if the Crusader states had lasted, Byzantium would have too and there would be plenty of Orthodox and probably Non-Chalcedonian Christians in the Levant too.

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Gwindor's avatar

Great stuff - I've followed on Spotify. Andrew G-D is wonderful - he did a very good run of art-history shows on the BBC a while back, the kind of documentaries I really miss. Looking forward to listening!

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