35 Comments
User's avatar
Gnasher's avatar

Bitter-sweet irony last night for the English to see Norwegians running out of gas.

Richard North's avatar

A week today, you may be able to bring out your Battle of Hastings stuff.

Charming Billy's avatar

The "ræd" and "rada" in both Athelraed "Unræd" the Unready and Harald Hardrada mean counsel or rule. Makes you wonder what "ræd" or "rada" epithets some present day political figures would earn in the early Middle Ages.

Sun god's avatar

Keir Witleasrada (Keir witless-ruler), Boris Wifraed (Boris wife-counselled)

Charming Billy's avatar

Donald Geolurēadrǣd (Donald orange-counseler)

Henrik's avatar

Specifically on Harald Hardråde's case 'tough ruler'. He famously didn't take any bullshit. Keir would be more likely to fall within the 'Unready' or similar epithets

Charming Billy's avatar

I think Trump would be a sort of comic version of Harald Hardråde.

Kieran McGovern's avatar

Ian Wright best described our second great victory: “Bellingham said, ‘Hold my beer!’”. Camera wire came in handy, too.

But note to the older England fans in the stands: please put the dressing-up box away. Those crusader costumes are sub-nativity play standard. Just follow the protocol: stare grimly into space and refuse to participate in waves or similar communal nonsense.

Peter w's avatar

I'm genuinely curious about how history might have been different if Harald Hardrada had prevailed at Stamford Bridge

Ed West's avatar

they discussed this in a TRIH episode a year ago or so, and I think I agree that England would come within France’s orbit inevitably

Aidan Barrett's avatar

Because of the sheer wealth and influence of the French-speaking territories of Europe (particularly after the start of the Crusades) if not anything else.

Still, had the old Anglo-Norse ruling class survived in England, history (certainly cultural/linguistic history) would still have been quite different in my view.

Since Harold Godwinson was regarded as an illegitimate usurper by the Roman Papacy, I have speculated that an England where he was victorious might drift more in the direction of Constantinople much as that city hosted the Anglo-Saxon exiles in our reality.

FrankLJ's avatar

We would all be talking like Geordies. The English would then not have developed overseas contacts, as no one would have understood what the hell they were saying.

Madjack's avatar

Great, and delightfully written, history.

Ed West's avatar

Thank you!

Henrik's avatar

Harald Hardråde's defeat and death used to be seen as some kind of black mark in Norwegian history but it ushered in a cultural and political Great Era that lasted until the Black Death (including the epic civil war of the 1100s). Nice piece. I always felt like the Norwegian deployment at Stamford Bridge seemed like such an uncharacteristically inept setup.

FrankLJ's avatar

Viking or Hun, Zulu or Apache - humanity in the raw, is pretty raw.

‘Miklegard’ - so that’s where that expression mickle (many) comes from up north. From visitors. Many a mickle, makes a muckle.

When I was up there once, I was told about something called ‘first footing’; for good luck, the first person through your front door after the New Year should be dark haired. The idea is, if you see a blond stranger at your door - it’s not a sign of good luck.

Ed West's avatar

In Istanbul or Norway?

FrankLJ's avatar

Scotland.

Chris B's avatar

First footers need to bring a piece of coal with them, no? Presumably blondes stay at home till it’s all over.

Jack French's avatar

If you’re not dark-haired you carry the piece of coal to make yourself the dark man. My dad used to do this in North Wales in the 1960s.

FrankLJ's avatar

You would know, I just heard about once.

What stuck in my mind was, they are all pretty dark up there, compared to their neighbors, having migrated from southern Europe way up north. So visitors would stick out. I guessed that was the basis for the custom, but would be interested to hear more.

Charming Billy's avatar

Maybe it's a folk memory of big blonde Harald Hardrada showing up unexpectedly along with his friends and family. Not really a sign of good luck when a load of Vikings come calling.

Ed West's avatar

not normally, no

Sun god's avatar

Always found it curious how a culture could go from producing men like Hadrada to borderline pacifism. Perhaps a strong point against genetic determinism, and in favour of the societal importance of Christianity

JonF311's avatar

Maybe, but it may also be the case that excessively violent people, at least when their violence verges on anarchic, remove themselves from the gene pool by their own actions just like excessively stupid people.

Charming Billy's avatar

Sadly, excessively stupid people seem to make up for in fecundity what they loose to stupidity.

Aidan Barrett's avatar

"You can still see Norse graffiti on the upper levels of the Hagia Sophia, and one imagines a bored young Viking forced to endure an interminable Orthodox church service doodling away"

I have found this fact amazing, not only because such graffiti has survived the tumultuous times the city has endured since then but because it indicates that literacy in Runic was at least reasonably widespread in Scandinavia as late as the 11th Century.

FrankLJ's avatar

Now I want to see it. If I’m ever allowed in.

Yes, I saw runes in an old Viking cave on Orkney, and was surprised too, that many ordinary people were literate.

The cave runes looked ancient and mystical. But the guide said they meant something like ‘Sigurd Olafsdotter is the tallest woman in the settlement, but even she has to bend over to come in here’.

Greg's avatar

Outstanding! I haven’t even read it yet and already I love it! This is why I pay my paltry fiver every month!

Greg's avatar

I’ve now read it. Good luck to Harry Neatbeard up front. May Erland the Tall go berserk in his own box and get a red card!

Brendan K's avatar

I find the most interesting parts of history are when eras bleed into each other. No one knows they are the last Viking at the time! I like to think Harald went out on his own terms. After him, I imagine there was a whole generation of Scandinavian Tony Sopranos who came of age after the best of it is over and knew it too.

One of my favorite novels Kristin Lavransdatter takes place 14th century Norway. The people are Christianized, but a more Viking and pagan age is just beneath the surface. Kristin's father could have been a great leader in the Viking Age but ended up a well-liked farmer, a hero restrained by circumstance. Her husband clearly would rather be an adventurer but ends up a societal nuisance more than anything. There are less outlets for glory in a settled kingdom.

Ed West's avatar

and the first monarch to lead a crusade was a Norwegian. So sort-of still quite a Viking.

zinjanthropus's avatar

"One of his (supposed) party tricks was to break a siege by attaching burning wood to the wings of birds, which would then fly back to their nests within the city, starting a fire, a method originally thought up by the Vikings in Russia.'

To "break a siege" is to force the besiegers to abandon it; sounds like this is the opposite.

Ed West's avatar

good point!